Buying Odin the RV

Our Class A RV, Odin the Winnebago

First of all, is it an RV (recreational vehicle)?  Motorhome (sounds fancy)?  Coach (sounds expensive)?  Rig (a fifth-wheel)?  It's our home, so recreational vehicle doesn't feel right.  Technically, Class A's are motorhomes (which has the word "home" in it.)  However, the DMV considers RV a legal term.  I've been flip-flopping back and forth.

When we announced on our Facebook page that we were buying an RV, I received a lot of questions from friends contemplating their own RV purchase.  "Gas vs diesel?"  "Class A vs Fifth-Wheel?" Here's how we did it.  Was it ideal?  No.  But as usual, we did a ton of research before taking the leap.  Friends who own RV's gave us a lot of advice along with forums and salesmen(?). This is our experience:

It was similar to buying a boat: 

• Start your research online early to find out what is in your price range, what is available in your desired shopping area (and around the country), what are standard features, how long they are staying on the market before being sold, etc.  Try to have realistic expectations going in.
• Initially, travel to an area where you can walk through as many as possible (for the boat it was Annapolis.  For the RV, it was Florida.). It will help you learn your likes and dislikes.  Look at smaller and larger that your desired length.  Look at units over (and under) your price range to get ideas and understand the differences.  (I didn't get The Colonel to walk through a Class B until the very end and it was too late to "turn the ship around."  We already had a Class A we were interested in.)  After day two of shopping, we had a checklist of likes/dislikes/things to check and the search was revised at the end of each day (and meeting several salesmen will help you decide who you want to do business with).  
• Call ahead to confirm the RV's you are interested in are still in stock.  Just like boat shopping, not all RV dealers keep their websites current. (Camping World Bartow does.  Our RV was immediately changed to "pending").
• It is difficult to find a sound mode of transportation and fully furnished home that you both love.  When you do, it's easy to get attached and over look problems (or compromise and buy something that isn't perfect because you're tired of shopping.  I probably won't be happy I don't have an oven in the long-term.  And it's feels HUGE but it may be our full-time home at some point.)
• When you get serious and especially when you are interested in specific models on the lot, avoid weekends.  There are a lot of tire kickers on the weekend and the salesman (and boat brokers) may not take you seriously.
• Stand in the shower.  Lay on the bed.  Sit on the couch and look around.  Root through all the cabinets.  You'll be amazed what you'll see if you take your time.  
• Like boat shopping with a broker, don't be bashful about having a salesmen walk with you so you can ask questions.  We quickly learned to speak our mind.  "Nope, I don't like the layout.  What else have you got?"   Or use key phrases to get your spouse to move on.  "I was really hoping for an oven" (from me) or "It smells funny," (from him) means NEXT!  (I ended up without an oven, but our home doesn't smell funny). 
• Similar to boat shopping, our budget almost doubled as we discovered our minimum likes and dislikes.  Be prepared for disappointment and to walk away.

What we learned:  

• Similar to buying a boat, learn the key problem areas of RV's in general.  Water leaks result in structural damage that is VERY expensive to repair, ie. "project boat".  A full set of tires for a Class A is $$$$.  Learn to how to check tire dates.  In our case, it was finding an RV with fully functional air conditioning--check the dash air AND the "back" a/c.  The Colonel's focus was, "I can do the work.  What damage/repair requires cost-prohibitive parts?").  Frequent owner's forums.  Research recalls.   Learn class specific strengths and weaknesses (See below.  Many of our friends have fifth-wheels.  That was our original intent, but research showed finding a used diesel in FL in our price range was going to be difficult--and we'd have to shop for two vehicles, instead of one while homeless and staying in hotels...)
• Don't be bashful about asking to have it powered up earlier instead of later (a/c not working in July is a deal breaker.  Find out early before you get attached).  Ask for the slides/awning to be run in & out (you definitely MUST do this before leaving a deposit, but asking early will reveal a salesman who is reluctant, not knowledgeable or not taking you seriously).  
• If you are shopping in hurricane season in FL (JUNE/JULY!) shop early in the day.  It quickly becomes unpleasant as the RV interiors heat up and even a good unit takes awhile to cool down.

Our checklist.  Everyone's will be different but some items we considered mandatory since it will be our full-time home part of the year.  Other items were deal breakers.  When you are trying to decide between two RV's, items like oven or convection and extra awnings can be tie breakers.
Here's a link:  https://www.dropbox.com/s/2mzuzfblhjxdqxn/RV%20Prepurchase.pdf?dl=0

Get an idea where to start by your planned usage and price range.  (Yes, renting one to get an idea of your likes & dislikes is a good idea, but expensive)

• Class A:  Odin is a Class A (looks like a tour bus!).  Class A's are criticized for being hard to drive (we learned the basics quickly and keep the days short but it's not for everyone) and using a lot of gas (see gas mileage below).  We liked the idea of going back to grab a soda while rolling down the road (we used to say sandwich, but honestly, we just pull over and take a break when it's lunch time) and the cat being able to wander around the house without having to be put into a carrier.  Tons of basement storage.  Frankly, Odin the Winnebago feels bigger than our boat (and your living space also expands outside if weather permits) and the basement storage is nice.  We are hoping to clean out a storage unit in MO (without increasing our gas mileage too much).  Don't forget you'll be using truck stops instead of normal gas stations because of your height.

Class B Winnebago Era

• Class B:  A camper van.  I get B's and C's confused.  I believe the lines are becoming blurred.  However, in general, this is a van chassis (yawn!)  

Class C Winnebago Aspect

• Class C:  Based on a standard truck chassis, you can differentiate by the truck "cab".  These are AWESOME!  They are starting to make them with slides so they would have been the perfect size for us (although, if we ever full-timed instead of just 6 months a year, this may become a little small).  We found one we liked with the overhead bunk for a reading nook or storage, Captain's chairs that swiveled for additional seating, a slide to increase to the living area and a slide to increase the bedroom area (we prefer a queen size bed and want to get away from someone having to crawl over like we do in the boat).  You give up space somewhere, so you have decide if that's the shower, the bed access, kitchen or the aisle in the living area.  You can park it anywhere including almost any grandkids driveway.  Easier to drive.  The downside is the PRICE!  We bought a used Class A for half the price of a new Class C.  There aren't a lot on the used market.  People hold onto to these.  They are very popular right now.  (And the reviews are mixed as to whether they tow a vehicle well.  See gas vs diesel)

Fifth-wheel courtesy of http://haw-creek.com/fifth-wheel-rvs/

• Fifth wheel:  Fifth-wheels are distinct for the RV overlapping the truck bed.  Several friends swear by their fifth wheels.  They love the space and "not feeling like their car is in their living room."  Many have multiple slides.  Advantage is you have a second vehicle or toad/dinghy when you want to leave the rv park for groceries.  Cons are: you need a good size diesel truck that can pull the weight.  (Don't get stingy here).  If you already have the truck and want to full-time, this is probably the way to go.  Another con is putting the cat in a carrier to ride in the truck on hotter days, which is most of them for us right now.  Also, we've been told that maneuvering in hilly campgrounds can result in the hitch dragging.

Let's talk towing capacity.  A Prevost pulling a pickup truck with a golf cart in the bed.

Gas vs diesel pusher:
The Colonel should really be writing this section but that's not going to happen.  These are my notes as we learned the pros & cons.  Any good info is his.  Any typos or incorrect statements are mine.

It's common knowledge in the RV world that diesel is preferable over gasoline.  So why aren't they all gasoline?  Sticker price!  As we continued to research, we learned it's not only for durability and gas mileage but various other factors.  Here's some food for thought.  (One salesman said to estimate your mileage vs budget.  He sees many people pay the additional for a diesel and end up putting very little mileage on it, negating the advantage.)

• Torque:  This is the first thing a salesman will say (YAWN!)  Diesel's have more torque.  Hands down.  It has to do with being able to get over the mountains, la, la, la.  (Our first trip took us through the Smokies and on to Loveland, CO.  No pulling over to wait for the transmission to cool on steep climbs.  That's a good thing.)
• Engine access:  Now I'm paying attention.  The Colonel is a mechanic.  There is a good chance if we break down, he may be able to fix it!  Diesel engines are in the back of the RV and generally have better access (you can tell if a motorhome is diesel by noting if the engine grill is in the back).  Engine access is usually under the master berth mattress which gives lots of room for maintenance and troubleshooting.  (Just like boats, don't forget to see the engine access of each model.  Deal breakers!)
• Handling:  Another biggie we didn't know.  Because diesels have the engine in the back, there is less noise and vibration in the cockpit, which results in less driver fatigue (and less wear & tear on the structure overall).  I can't testify to the ride of a gas RV, but our diesel is very quiet up front while on the road.
• Turning radius:  With the engine in the rear, the turning radius of the front wheels is usually increased to 55-60 degrees (increased turning radius GOOD when you're trying to turn your house around in that campground that looked good on paper).
• Air-ride suspension:  We've heard complaints that gas-powered RV's are squirrely when it's windy, when towing or when passed by semis.  Diesels have an air-ride suspension that smooths the ride out, resulting in less rattling dishes (I can't explain WHY!  Sorry.  We have it and it's a good thing!)
• Air braking: Diesels have air brakes (like semis) that help when coming down large hills without overheating the brakes.  We learned our air brakes quickly in the Smokies.  They would hold us at about 55 mph (depending on what gear you were in before they were applied).  Easy peasy.
• Increased towing capacity:  Since we are full-timing (6 months a year) we will eventually buy a dinghy (car that we will tow).  Diesels can pull from 5000 to up to 10,000 lbs easily.  You can pull a full-size pickup with a Class A, if you want to (nascar pic)
• Durability:  The estimated service life of a gas engine is 100,000 miles versus diesel engines which are designed to run a million miles before needing a rebuild.  Diesel runs at a lower RPM, thereby increasing the engine life (this is a long-term investment or means you can buy a used diesel with higher mileage diesel than gas)
• Chassis:  Gas will likely be a Ford chassis (used you may find a Chevy).  Diesel is usually Freightliner, Road Master, Spartan which are basically the same as an over-the-road semi!
• Gas mileage: Both have similar mpg but the cost of diesel fuel is higher (Supposedly offset by the decreased lifetime maintenance)
• Operating cost:  The operating cost of a gas RV is less than diesel.  Instead of going to a normal shop, you'll be going to a specialty diesel maintenance shop.  There are more filters and oil is gallons instead of quarts.  I mentally blocked out the cost of a set of tires for a diesel-pusher.  See gas mileage above.
• Increased living area:  The diesel manufacturer's claim that since the entry door in front of the passenger seat (instead of behind in a gas) you have increased living area.   This is a weak excuse to me, but may affect your interior layout preferences.
• Storage:  The diesel RV has increased basement storage because of the raised frame
• Resale value 

So the moral of the story is, decide what's right for you (and in your price range).

Whew!  That felt like a book report!  

Our first haul out, Puerto del Rey

Puerto del Rey marina and haul-out facility.

Departing Green Beach, Vieques for Puerto del Rey in Fajardo, we are off anchor by 8:00 am with the genoa unfurled & one engine at idle and a 15 kts quartering tailwind.  Once we clear the shoal, we turn northbound and are on a beam reach.  However, there are big waves on the beam (more confused waves) and it's (another) rough ride until we turn westbound for the marina, just past Isla Pineros (Beautiful.  Tentative stop that we are passing up for the marina.  Next time.)  We have the marina in sight with two sailboats heading out.  This places looks fun!

Passing Isla Pineros

It's been two months since we've been in a marina and Puerto del Rey is one of the bigger marinas we've been to.  We call on the radio to get our slip assignment (916, on the powerboat side but also near the lift).  The boats are HUGE and the fairways look narrow as we try to determine which side of dock 9 we need to be on.  The dock hands flag us down and I look back at The Captain, awaiting any last minute instructions.  With two dock hands waiting on either side, I decided to throw the stern lines first and walk both lines to midship.  With two casual tosses and a gentle kiss, we're on.  The dock master welcomes us with, "It's regatta weekend.  Lot's of food, drink and MUSIC!"  

What to do first?  Showers?  Restaurant?  Nope.  Air conditioning!  It will be in the 90's for the next two days.

"Is it on?!"

Officially out of canned beets.  "Here's your dinner, honey!"

Stats:  Total time 2:40, avg speed 5.0 kts, total mileage 13.5 nm.  Motor sail with genoa and 1-engine 50%.

TOTAL MILEAGE SINCE DEPARTING ANNAPOLIS, MD:  3205.9 NM
TOTAL MILEAGE SINCE DEPARTING FLORIDA:  approx 1300 NM

Warranty Taylor Made fenders

It's always like Christmas when our packages catch up with us at a marina.  Our boat came with a set of Taylor Made Fenders.  The Hull Gards have a lifetime guarantee and true to their word, Taylor Made replaced our two blown fenders!

On the right, the new hatch covers

We were the lucky winner of an Outland Hatch Cover from The Boat Galley. We ordered a second one since they were having their spring sale.  We neglected to tell them we were an older PDQ with the older version of this style hatch, but with a little shaving, they're on!  An improvement over our canvas covers that occasionally blow off or leak (leech line caught in seal). Thank you!  They look great!

Our last stop of the season has beautiful sunrises!

Winterizing the dinghy outboard for hurricane season--you know what I mean!

All that food organization means lots of bins to clean

Now we're in that awkward in-between phase.  We're at the marina, but we don't haul out until next Wed.  We've consumed a lot of the provisions that I so carefully stockpiled as we went (may regret that in Nov!) and the water tank ran dry as we hit the dock.  It's a long walk to the bathroom, so we're still using the head.  I need to start cleaning the interior of the boat:  pack remaining provisions into plastic tubs, clean & wipe everything down with vinegar/tea tree oil (to prevent mold), wash everything that I can fit in the washer/dryer (sheets, towels, cushion covers), then pack it all into plastic bags.  But we live in a very small space...The Captain is only outside in the mornings, before the heat builds.  When we moved onto the boat, it was April--things were spread across the salon, the cat was confined to our berth and it spilled out into the cockpit and onto the dock.  Not really an option now.

(A special thank you to Summertime Rolls for suggesting to leave extra provisions in the laundry room.  I was wildly popular with the cleaning staff, even though I had to explain lentils and coconut milk.)

And of course, the food of Puerto del Rey:

Fried fish sandwich and Arroz con Pollo.  They don't look exciting but they're yummy!

Mofongo:  fried plaintains, smashed and cooked in garlic.  YUMMO!  

Even the guava and avocado were FIRE!

Laundry day.  It was $3 to wash and $3 to dry but you have to buy a $5 debit card that you "load up".  I used a $5 bill to get the card then only had a $20.  Somehow I spent $25 on laundry!

Through the Women Who Sail FaceBook group, we met up with s/v Outta Control for drinks.  It turns out they've hauled out for the last 6 years and also have an RV back home.  Lots of great advice!

Bimini before

Bimini off

Another day and more items to check off the list.  The strataglass got a fresh water rinse then an Imar clean and condition by the First Mate before The Captain starting taking off the bimini.  As the day heats up, I move inside to clean out our berth locker (stow some unused clothes in bins.  Hang up dryer sheets on those still hanging) and then attempt to clean/find the nav table.  Love the a/c!

Starting to pack

Electric tea kettle (too high amp draw), Nutribullet (too expensive for 2), Aeropress, 5 t-shirts, 2 shorts, 2 capris with room to spare. Backpack with iPad, Kindle, personal paperwork to go. Bam!  I'm packed.

"I sense change.  I'm not happy."

Anyone who lives with a cat, knows it best to leave them in the dark about future activities that may affect their nap schedule.  When we sold our house, we waited until she went to sleep on our bed, then closed the door to pack/garage sale/clean.  She was fine until we moved out the mattress...Today the cleaning has gotten serious & Amelia is onto us.  After watching Daddy scrub down the salon, she jumped up onto the table, looked at me, and dumped over her water glass.  Pretty sure she did that on purpose.  So that's how this is gonna go...

Yeah, Mama's not talking to you either!

Finally, it's Monday morning and we go over to meet Shanaz at the haul out facility and receive some good news (I hope I don't jinx us).  We'd heard rumors about a rule change that said no work being allowed in the hurricane haul out facilities, even by approved contractors.  The boat would have to be moved over to the boat yard (additional lift charge).  It turns out, we can still hire a contractor to power wash and sand, then we can roll on the bottom paint when we get back. I love it when a plan comes together.  A stop at the marine store inside the marina yields some Damp Rid and Kanberra gel.  Score!

My side of the haul-out battle--mold/mildew and mice/insects.  Today I'm wiping down 500ish sq ft of headliner with a vinegar/water/tea tree oil solution.  Usually, it's easy cleaning our tiny home, but I've never cleaned the ceiling by hand!  Also, hoping that running the air conditioning for 6 days will help dry everything out ;-). 

Dec 2014.  Edgewater, MD.

I was looking through old pics to confirm strap placement for our haul out tomorrow.  The last time Odin was out of the water was Dec 3, 2014 for our sea trial (and technically, still someone else's problem if he fell off the lift).  You think that can't happen?  A catamaran in Luperon had fallen off the lift twice while trying to splash...Momma is getting nervous!  

Genoa off the roller furler

The sails are finally coming off.  It's been too windy the last few days and then, where to put them!  They're HUGE!  

The strength of wind in a sail is amazing.  You can feel it when you take a sheet off the winch while underway, but the last time we did this, I was almost lifted off my feet while standing on the trampoline:  

"Here hold onto this, while I go furl it in..."  

"Um, honey?!?!"

This morning was uneventful.

A friends boat just down the way in the yard.

s/v Outta Control

Veterans at hauling out, our friends on s/v Outta Control allow me to shadow them while they haul out (inside 24 hours people!). I want to vomit as it swings in the slings over the concrete, and it isn't even my boat!  I learn a few tricks including marking the sling placement in masking tape.  I grab The Captain and we walk back over for a quick consult with the lift operator on where we will be located (back fence near water & electricity!), well procedures (stern into the slings for us), and how we would like it blocked (took over pictures and a copy from our Owner's Manual for him to keep).  We advise him we wwill be at the fuel dock pumping out just prior to our slot and he says they'll watch for us and wave us over.  Feeling comfortable with the procedures for tomorrow.

(Pilot friends, zoom in on the logo on their stern.  Can you guess what he did for a living?)

Side note:  Maybe we have these in Missouri, but the boats in the background are in the "Dry Stack" also called a "boat hotel".  The marina has 1000 wet slips and 400 dry stack spaces!  There are 2 separate full-time lifts splashing and restacking these little power boats.  It's crazy!

Oh, and "No one may live or sleep on vessel in dry stack area."

Owner's Manual diagram.  

The Captain's smashed toe in the middle of boat prep.  Sigh...

AND the main sail is off. He is one naked sail boat. Naked, naked, naked.  
Note to self.  Order more ball bearing before returning to boat :-(

One more sunrise from the boat.  Laundry, defrost fridge, rental car, fuel dock, haul out!

Haul out day.  I'm in the laundry room by 6:30 am but the washer's aren't working.  No sweat.  I'll come back.  Back to start the fridge defrost.  8:00 am. Walk up to get the rental car.  Can't find the rental car company that is supposed to be on the property.  Call (pet peeve--once I make the reservation, I should get the phone number to the location that HAS my CAR, not an 800 number) and discover they've moved to the ferry dock.  They come to pick us up.  By 9:15, we're on the road to the hardware store.  (I'm driving.  I haven't driven since June 2015.  At one point I think I'm speeding but I'm only doing 40 mph.  Never got it above 45!). Buy tarp for the bottom clean.  Back to the marina by 10:30 am.  Washer is fixed so laundry is started.  Lunch.  Back to put clothes in dryer.  Clothes don't get dry but I don't have enough on the debit card for another dry--and The Captain wants to be off the dock by 12:45pm.  Walk away from laundry for the second time.  Pull boat to the other side of double-wide slip to counteract wind.  Depart the slip for the fuel dock.  Despite scheduling the day before, the staff is late getting back from lunch.  The Captain eases in and I lasso a cleat.  Score!  Stern swings in & we're tied off.  They tell us to do the pump-out ourselves :-(  Sit and wait for a few minutes and ease off at 1:15 for our 1:30 pm.  The crew truck pulls up to the lift and Bennie and his crew pile out, so we spin around and back into the well.  "We were waiting for you guys!"  Four lines are quickly tied off.  One fender moved that will be in the way of a strap.  I'm ordered off to report to Shanaz in the office to sign our paperwork.  I sign my life away and she radios back to the lift that we are cleared to go.  When I get back, Odin is out of the water and reported to weigh 12,000 lbs.  "Don't look at me!  We ate most of the canned goods..."

Come back from the office to this.  Gonna vomit.

Odin coming over the cement...Nauseous

The crew under Odin

Bennie and the ground crew all crawl under Odin and begin securing straps and using a rubber mallet to look for the cross beams.  They discuss the number of jack stands and the crew member on the left departs to get the stands then meets us at our spot. 

Down through the dry stack

Across the bridge

Into the yard {sniff, sniff}

ALL the way to the back..."Don't worry, Odin.  It will be like summer camp."  F@$%, where's the rum?!  Dang it!  On the boat.

We're in the VERY back corner so they had to take down a fence to get the lift in!

"We're in a tight spot, Harry." 

And now I pace...we're backed up to the mangroves, back of yard from the ocean, near a power pedestal, under a security camera.  Now the blocking begins. Bennie our lift operator, 4 yard employees & the contractor (+1) that will power wash & sand the bottom...

They're expanding the yard.

Tarp laid down.  Reuben & The Captain discussing power wash and sanding.

1.5 hours in, and Bennie is still not satisfied that Odin is level.  Craig hops up and hands down Amelia (which brings work to a halt while the crew says hello to Princess).  I bolt to the car to meet our AirBnB landlord.  By the time I return the lift is gone and The Captain is inside watching TV with the a/c on.  (Now you can call us weenies).  "I didn't want to disturb those guys while they're power washing..."

Security stops by to ask if our outboard will stay on the rail.  "It's locked.  I can take it in but I'd rather not."  No, I just need to add it to my inventory.  We keep track.  WOW!

Keels sitting on blocks (Note the tubing rolled up in the tarp.  They wet vac up what they power wash off.  Interesting.)
Zoom in to see what those barnacles do to your bottom paint.  Yes, ours was shot, but you can see the dots where they were!

4 jack stands under the bridge deck.  2 under the bows and 2 under the sterns.

Hurricane straps

View off the bow (note the 10ft high fence with razor wire!)

View off our stern

The barnacles on the rudder I couldn't reach

Another catamaran advantage over our monohull friends.  We can climb up the swim ladder to get on the boat!

"Sorry, Odin Jr."  Now we know why the davit lines are so long!  We were able to lower it all the way to the ground while on the stands.

Dinghy with cover & tarp then secured to the jack stands ("kayakie")

Our contractor was already wet sanding the hull when we arrive the next morning at 7:30 am.  Main engines flushed, Sea-foam & corrosion X.  Dinghy lowered, bottom cleaned, treated with 303 protectant, covered with dinghy cover & tarp, secured to jack stands.  Kayak secured.  Kitchen strainer cleaned. Thru-hulls closed.  Clean sheets & towels stored in plastic with dryer sheets. Checked out of the marina side. "Whole interior" wiped down with 1:1 vinegar/water.  (PITA).  Trash off.  Bug spray.  A/c stowed.  Power & water disconnected.

We're done. We're walking away.  One dirty glass will go back to the RV as my "boat" souvenir. 

"No wild parties while we're gone, Odin. Por favor no mold, no pests, no hurricanes. Adios!"

Stats:  I don't keep a detailed budget like some other bloggers, but we keep track of the biggies.  Here's what this haul out and trip home cost.

6 days at the dock (can be shortened or cheaper marina):  $1.65x6 days = $59.40/day + 11.5% tax = $397.38 

Electric at the dock (air conditioner) $15

Haul out & blocking (includes splash in Nov) $475

Tarp for power wash (EPA) $110 (we only needed 1/2 that.  Gave remainder to Reuben as a tip)

Power wash & wet sand (Reuben) $621 (yard doesn't allow owners to sand)

Hurricane Straps $25/piece x $4 = $100

Sand off boot stripe & prime white stripe (one-time relocation of water line & boot stripe) $580

Rental car $35/day x 2 + $60 drop off San Juan Airport = $130

Hotel/AirBnB 2 nights at $89 + fees = $239

One-way airline to Miami $175 x 2 = $350

Forgive us retired folks for the BYOB happy hour when we come to visit!